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His wife Kay announced via Facebook: I am sorry to make a Interviews of "alleged descendant" are not reliable sources for an history article, and the burden of demonstrating their reliability falls upon the editor who want to introduce them, as is written at WP:INTERVIEWS. 'the Ruthenian one'; c. 1500 15 April 1558), also known as Hurrem Sultan (Turkish pronunciation:[hym sutan], Ottoman Turkish: , romanized:urrem Suln, Modern Turkish: Hrrem Sultan), was the chief consort and legal wife of the Ottoman sultan Suleiman the Magnificent. [45] She has inspired paintings, musical works (including Joseph Haydn's Symphony No. She imprinted her seal and watched the council meetings through a wire mesh window. +64 3 687 9228. I request moderators to change the title of this page to "Mahidevran" only and if they find it pertinent as well, to retain the speculations in a subtopic within the page. Give me one name of the mother of potential heir to the throne (like mustafa) who wasn't called Sultana after 1500. hurrem. [24] This title, used for a century, reflected the great power of imperial consorts (most of them were former slaves) in the Ottoman court, elevating their status higher than Ottoman princesses, and making them the equals of empresses consort in Europe. This has to stop, no factual person will buy your theory. 8:02Am Jun 6, 2017 morning to take a look at it dazzling performances that the Inbetweener on the film, the voice behind the character Wallace who h Something that interests me is how a popular notion can sound very appealing. First of all, many claims as to what happened in the harem are comple Everyone has a right to put their opinion and I just put mine. It's not her possible title and you think this is a joke. Therefore, Suleiman had to announce that he sent Mustafa to the Persian border for safety reasons. The death of television icon Betty White received a lot of attention in popular culture. This practice was called karde katliam, literally "fraternal massacring". https://books.google.com/books?id=VLVoAAAAMAAJ&dq, http://www.odatv.com/n.php?n=iste-gercek-mahidevran-0910121200, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=tjFpAAAAMAAJ&dq=mahidevran+sultan&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=mahidevran, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=JYk-AQAAIAAJ&q=mahidevran+sultan&dq=mahidevran+sultan&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=ZXUQBwAAQBAJ&pg=PT95&dq=mahidevran+sultan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7ntDe0sjKAhUGZg8KHRUPAg8Q6AEIOTAG#v=onepage&q=mahidevran%20sultan&f=false, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=SAIZCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA86&dq=mahidevran+sultan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwix5YWtk83KAhUMHxoKHSPbApQQ6AEIRTAI#v=onepage&q=mahidevran%20&f=false, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=5WT1BQAAQBAJ&pg=PT240&dq=mahidevran+sultan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwix5YWtk83KAhUMHxoKHSPbApQQ6AEITTAJ#v=onepage&q=mahidevran&f=false. Please consider all sources available. Unless we have another source which gives us the sketch of positions of Sultan's consorts in Harem, the WEB SITE can be cited, because there is no mentioning of consort's positions and their status in their master's harem in Leslie's book. Of these, Mahidevran's son Mustafa was the eldest and preceded Hurrem's children in the order of succession. If you treat Ottoman history as merely entertainment, you're not doing your job to inform people. It was the first complex constructed in Istanbul by Mimar Sinan in his new position as the chief imperial architect. Mahidevran and Mustafa lost one more time, now Selim (the second son of Hrrem) became the governor of the Manisa. In a play entitled The Holy League, Titian appears on stage at the Venetian Senate, and stating that he has just come from visiting the Sultan, displays his painting of Sultana Rossa or Roxelana. But like I said I assume that was Mahidevran who accompanied sulieman I am not sure because the book only mentioned his favorite accompanied him in a formal ceremony to Intanbul when he became Sultan. If Sultana cannot be used for a "Birinci Kadin" then Hatun should also not be used. The one denying a deceased person of it's possible Title, a full name you may call. In this case, Suleiman not only broke the old custom, but began a new tradition for the future Ottoman sultans: To marry in a formal ceremony and to give their consorts significant influence on the court, especially in matters of succession. Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:E8:8BCE:C01:ED43:4385:BB24:1ABE (talk) 09:23, 10 May 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply], (moved from user TP) And for your information, she wasn't the mother, sister, aunt or main wife of the sultan: she wasn't a sultana, even when a theatre play calls her that. Uzunarl, smail Hakk; Karal, Enver Ziya (1975). [19] According to Necdet Sakaolu, a Turkish historian, these accusations were not truthful. While "XXX son of Abdullah" maybe a son of a convert slave, you cannot say that Khalid son of Abdullah or Hussein son of Abdullah are also slaves. Magnificent century (Muhtesem Yuzy by I heart Duncan James. Mahidevran Sultan probably had a stillborn child or short-lived daughter somewhere between 1521 and 1524. My name is Moniek and I am from the Netherlands. It means there was no external reason for the death, such as a traumatic injury. Jobair khondoker (talk) 17:41, 2 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], "But Leslie P. Peirce also very clearly said that in 16th and 17th century(during Suleiman's reign) tge title hatun for a valide(Queen mother),Sultan's(emperor) chief consort and princesses was replaced with Sultan.As Mahidevran was the first chief consort and Ba Kadn (chief consort) according to ottoman tradition so it's very easy to find out that she held the title Sultan from the very beginning." During those decades the Venetian Republic was following the Ottoman dynastic news closely due to their close links with the empire. Before Hrrem Sultan, every consort was called hatun. Mustafa attended to his father during the Persian war, despite his mothers warnings. Please correct that. [25] Also, in Ottoman society, mothers played more influential roles in their sons' educations and in guiding their careers. It is explicitly explained that the title "Haseki Sultan" was created when Hrrem married Suleyman. Mahidevran and Suleiman had five children -- three sons and two daughters. She frequently accompanied him as a political adviser. ((reftalk))Reply[reply], There is no consensus to add the interview of an "alleged descendant" of Mahidevran to this article. "The Speech of Ibrahim at the Coronation of Maximilian II", Thomas Conley. In her first short letter to Sigismund II, Hurrem expresses her highest joy and congratulations to the new king on the occasion of his ascension to the Polish throne after the death of his father Sigismund I the Old in 1548. She was in the second rank after Hafsa Sultan(Valide Sultan) in the harem according to the Ottoman tradition. Also, a Sultana was a woman in Sultan's family, being a mother of heir apparent living in the Harem at the same time the title Haseki was used for Hurrem, it can be asserted that she was also called Sultana, due to the fact that in her time (when Hurrem came along) Sultana title was already started being used for royal consorts regardless if they were haseki or not, see example of Mahfiruz Hatice Sultan, who was niether haseki nor Valide. In the times of Suleyman, not everyone could be addressed that way. If you ask about Istanbul, the city still suffers from the plague; however, it is not like the previous one. We can ask her! A short woman wearing expensive clothes and jewelry appears Hurrem: Agha? Where are we? (She looks closer at my face, noticing the Therefore they can't be used. Mahidevran was: theoretically, the daughter of a hatun, a birinci kadin, but never a sultana: she didn't legally marry Suleyman. Learn how your comment data is processed. Chitchi, S. "Orientalist view on the Ottoman in the novel Roxalana (Hurrem Sultan) by Ukrainian author Pavlo Arhipovich Zahrebelniy". Hatun is used for every other lady in Turkish and Persian language. [20] After the death of Mustafa, Mahidevran lost her status in the palace as the mother of the heir apparent and moved to Bursa. There must be only one, with correct facts that inform people with the necessary information, and the reader, not the editor, is the one who makes the interpretation. Likewise Abdullah Frres's children were not slaves by nature. Scholars thus agree that European artists created a visual identity for Ottoman women that was largely imagined. If you all come to an agreement earlier let me know. When Suleiman freed and married her, she became the Haseki Sultan (adding the word sultan to a woman's name or title indicated that she was a part of the dynasty). Theories I presented are with facts of ottoman etiquette and evidence from History books. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 01:47, 29 February 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I beg to differ, in many books (arts, literature whatever you may call) she has been known as Sultana. Sources indicate that Hurrem Sultan was originally from Ruthenia, which was then part of the Polish Crown. Hurrem Haseki Sultan, or Roxelana, is well-known both in modern Turkey and in the West, and is the subject of many artistic works. -Le temps viendra (talk) 22:32, 10 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], Clear this matter Le temps Viendra Khondoker Jobair (talk) 05:03, 12 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], Mentioned her survival possible after Hurrem a death is not sound real. Copyright 2023 | MH Magazine WordPress Theme by MH Themes. He appointed to govern Konya instead of Mustafa. She's only ever referred to as Mahidevran Khatun or Hatun in sources, see The Imperial Harem, pages 55, 61 and 367. Reply[reply], Sort it out. I dont see why someone should expand these articles as seen from the title and the heated discussion on chief consort below that even sources are not enough and I just cant do such long discussions. The book comprises 27 paintings and 27 poems After months of hard work Grantlea Downs School celebrated the opening of its sensory footpath last Friday. 256 0 15. Categories: 1500 births. In 1521, Mustafa became chief prince due to his half-brothers deaths. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. She was not a sultana, she was a Birinci Kadin , therefore if any "royal title" should be used to her name it should be that; this is highly misleading and causes conflict with Ottoman history. Nedim Ardoa (talk) 06:21, 31 January 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], She was an Albanian; her father, Abdullah Recai was a musician and her brother was Nakkashan Adem. Hope you got my point. In the Ottoman imperial family tradition, a sultan's consort was to remain in the harem only until her son came of age (around 16 or 17), after which he would be sent away from the capital to govern a faraway province, and his mother would follow him. Worldandhistory (talk) 00:10, 25 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], You did not answer my first point, no where in the article does it say she belonged to a noble family, the article is now free from any claims of her being scion, the article simply focuses on her origins. Mahidevran gave birth to her son with Sultan Suleiman, Mustafa, at only 15 years old. Contrary to popular belief, this did not immediately make her the Ba Kadn or head consort as Suleiman had two other living sons at the time. Almost all, as one historian, argue that this woman had incredible beauty.Many historians write that she was a Circassian. [27] In defiance of this age-old custom, Hurrem stayed behind in the harem, even after her sons went to govern the empire's remote provinces. It is believed that Hurrem's influence contributed to Suleiman's decision. Popular culture calls her that way because in some theatre plays she's erroneously addressed like that, just as any work of FICTION. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 02:50, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Your yet another personal comment attack proves that it's not the History you're worried about but your own opinion. Check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription. Among her first foundations were a mosque, two Quranic schools (madrassa), a fountain, and a women's hospital near the women's slave market (Avret Pazary) in Istanbul (Haseki Sultan Complex). Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I oppose changing the title from Sultan to Hatun. Hrrem Sultan never left the capital to accompany her sons, and she became more and more precious for Suleiman, and afew years later they got married. No title is suitable for this page, niether Sultan nor Hatun since users can't agree. The Ottoman archives and privy purse records prove that she was Mahidevran Hatun, regardless that fact that she was the mother of the crown prince or had been once a favorite of Suleiman. During the campaign against Safavid Persia in 1553, because of fear of rebellion, Suleiman ordered the execution of Mustafa. That's all I'm requesting, for the sake of respecting Ottoman cultural heritage. Mahidevran Turbesi5.jpg 320 240; 21 KB. The original caption is only "sultana" and there is no reference to Rosne Pranvere. Around 1530, Mustafa was appointed to govern Manisa, as a part of his education and old Turkish tradition. The Venetian painter Titian is reputed to have painted Hurrem Sultan in 1550. If "Haseki Sultan" was created solely for Hurrem when they legally married, breaking a 200 hundred tradition of not marrying, why should anyone assume that other concubines of the sultan would start using "sultan" if they didn't marry him? The reason I call for a page title is to respect Ottoman customs and history, nothing more. During the start of 15th century, the Ottoman dynasty was taking over the territories of its rivals more rapidly than before. Images of the chief consort emphasized her beauty and wealth, and she is almost always depicted with elaborate headwear. Takabeg (talk) 09:10, 24 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], Someone needs to check the pronunciation: stress and vowel length. If that is wrong, Wikipedia should never ever cite an interview source in any other article as well. Because none of these people neither Ottomans nor foreign visitors were permitted into the inner circle of the imperial harem, which was surrounded by multiple walls, they largely relied on the testimony of the servants or courtiers or on the popular gossip circulating around Istanbul. Mahidevran, concubine of Suleiman the Magnificent Birth Place: Bosporus, Turkey Birthday: 1500 Death Date: February 3, 1581(age 81) Scholars have wondered if Hurrem's alliance with Mihrimah Sultan and Rstem Pasha helped secure the throne for one of Hurrem's sons. For this reason, she has become a controversial figure in Ottoman history subject to allegations of plotting against and manipulating her political rivals. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 20:52, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], It is stated that kadins and hasekis carried equal rights in the harem, so why are you so passionate to call her sultana if she wasn't married to Suleyman? She is known to be a legal wife before Hurrem Sultan, but not so popular since Hurrem Sultan was the first "slave" to become a legal wife, hence, only Hurrem's being a legal wife is so popular. With Suleiman, she had five sons and one daughter. According to reports of theVenetian ambassador, Mustafa was the whole joy in his mothers life, and Mahidevran was a highly effective figure in her sons court. Not only is the phrasing leaving much to be desired, the conclusion is also a subjective speculation presented as a fact. [2][3][4][5] She has been known by this title since Nurbano's time. [5] She soon became Suleiman's most prominent consort beside Mahidevran (also known as Glbahar), and their relationship was monogamous. While every other converted slave might be called Abdullah, we can't simply consider every person with the name of Abdullah to be a slave, for example, you say "Abdullah as a generic name for slave converts" then again I don't suppose that ehzade Abdullah was a slave, this contradicts your claim that evry man with this name was a slave. - Worldandhistory (talk) 16:33, 28 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2: Two of your sources are at stake (Colin Iber's and Peirce's), please read page 136 of Colin's book, this gives definition of Slave in general term, so calling any member of Sultan's family a slave does not necessarily makes them a slave by origin, and P simply used a text from Alberi, P herself only called M a concubine. It was a clear sign for Mahidevran and Mustafa; he might be the oldest son, but he was not the favourite one. Partly. Its was Mahidevrans fault that Sultan Suleiman focused all his attention on Hrrem Sultana. Simply because Mahidevran was too proud and wan The cast and crew are taking to the boards asPiraticus Rexopens at The Playhouse this week. She was the chief consort of Suleiman before the appearance of Hrrem Sultan. If interviews can be cited in Wikipedia for every living or dead person, why there is so much debate in this one? Worldandhistory (talk) 14:13, 4 March 2016 (UTC) Since that title was created for Hrrem, this does not affect Mahidevran, who was important nonetheless as the mother of the oldest prince, but not a Haseki. Not all Haseki married the Sultan, if Hasekis can be called Sultana without marrying the Sultan so can the Bas Kadins. Sorry cant find sources now that was about 12 years ago. WebAfter the death of Mustafa, Mahidevran lost her status in the palace as the mother of the heir apparent and moved to Bursa. This King (Sultan) did not have many successors left by 1511, for his only surviving son was Prince Sulieman (who later became Suleiman the Magnificent). Simply click 'close' in the top right corner to continue reading! Again, it's just my opinion I still oppose the change of title. Hurrem remained in the sultan's court for the rest of her life, enjoying a close and relationship with her husband, and having six children with him, including the future sultan, Selim II. WebDeath 3 Feb 1581 (aged 8081) Bursa, Bursa, Turkey. [46], In 2007, Muslims in Mariupol, a port city in Ukraine opened a mosque to honour Roxelana.[47]. [33] Her rehabilitation had been possible after the death of Hurrem in 1558. p. 401. In the end, Mustafa was appointed to governAmasya (close to Persian border) while Mehmet moved to Manisa. Many books (you may easily google) have also referred to this website for references. WebMahidevran became full of spite, bitterness, jealousy, arrogance, cruelty, and sorrow. Now Mahidevran became a chief consort as a mother of the only prince in the Empire. Meanwhile, another woman grabbed the eye of Suleiman; she gave birth to her first son (Mehmet) that same year and endangered Mahidevrans position. This new woman was the famous Hrrem Sultan. She was the first imperial consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. And I have an interesting video for the newer.Today I want to tell you about Mahidevran Sultan, who she really is.Mahidevran Sultan is the mother of Shehzade Mustafa. Yes, it was and the series shouldve put more emphasis on Valide Sultanas criticism of her behaviour. Hurrem and Mahidevran really did fight, but Look up Idar of Karbardia, he did existed and like I said "even if there is a slightest possibility" then making a statement would be wrong. Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.101.0.179 (talk) 11:44, 12 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], If the modifiers of this page can identify this reference, then please update. For Sultan Selim I was indeed the best King the Ottomans had, up until then. 113.203.156.141 (talk) 23:52, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], First of all, those references you've cited are: 1) popular culture based books 2) recent and based on art and theatrical depictions; as such, these references are unfounded and misinformed when it comes to Ottoman history. Thank you From Khondoker Jobair. Dear Phso 2,I think i have made the issue clear which is about the royal woman "Mahidevran" and you shuould not have any doubt or confusion or Question regarding this subject. Hurrem has usually been held at least partly responsible for the intrigues in nominating a successor. WebExplore Mahidevrans 121 photos on Flickr! Please see meaning of "Birinci Kadin" in whatever Ottoman Dictionary you like. Mahidevran became his favourite woman probably when she was fifteen, and she had a son (Mustafa). 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